Lesley Groff, Jeffrey Epstein’s longtime assistant, told members of Congress last month that she never met any of the girls and young women who provided massages to Epstein and that she didn’t know anything about their backgrounds – including how old they were.
Some Epstein survivors say that Groff was not telling the truth.
In interviews with CNN, multiple Epstein victims, including four women who spoke on record and two who shared their accounts anonymously, took issue with various aspects of Groff’s recent testimony to lawmakers. They described meeting Groff in person, discussing with Groff how old they were and being directly paid by Epstein’s assistant of 18 years — all contrary to what Groff told lawmakers.
Those details were part of Groff’s hourslong, transcribed June 9 interview with the House Oversight Committee about her experience working for Epstein. She told members of the panel – which has been questioning a series of people in the convicted sex offender’s orbit this year – that she never knew about Epstein’s abuse of girls and women and that she was duped by his manipulation.
While Groff was listed as a potential co-conspirator to Epstein as part of the controversial non-prosecution agreement struck with federal prosecutors in Florida in 2008, she has never been charged with a crime.
Groff’s lawyer did not respond to CNN’s request for comment for this story.
A spokeswoman for the House Oversight Committee told CNN that the committee is “currently reviewing Ms. Groff’s transcript against the available evidence.” She added: “We welcome any additional evidence from individuals who possess information.”
“Lesley Groff knew what was happening in Epstein’s inner circle, which is why Chairman Comer should have required her to testify under oath,” Sara Guerrero, communications director for the oversight committee’s top Democrat, Rep. Robert Garcia, said in a statement. “Lying to Congress is a crime, and anyone who does it should be held accountable, full stop.”
Groff’s testimony has only fueled the frustration of Epstein survivors, many of whom are concerned that Congress’ interviews with Epstein associates will not lead to more accountability. Epstein co-conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell is the only person who has been prosecuted in the US in relation to Epstein, and the Justice Department has said there has been insufficient evidence to pursue other charges – even after it released millions of Epstein files.
“We have so many people coming in and lying and saying they don’t know, they don’t remember,” said Epstein survivor Marina Lacerda. “Can we just have one person at least come in and take accountability and bring in full transparency?”
Groff told members of the House Oversight Committee that Epstein had been a “master manipulator and deceiver” who had kept his abuse a secret from her, saying: “For 18 years, I worked for Dr. Jekyll but was never permitted to see the true Mr. Hyde.”
It is a crime under federal law to “knowingly and willfully” give “materially” false statements to Congress. The Epstein survivors CNN spoke with said it was not possible to produce corroboration for some of their claims about their interactions with Groff, which for some, took place more than two decades ago when many of the victims were teenagers and before the proliferation of smart phones.
Here is what Epstein survivors said in response to some of the claims Groff made in her interview:
Groff repeatedly told lawmakers that she never met any of the girls and women whom she arranged to give massages to Epstein. “To my knowledge I never met any of these masseuses,” she said.
All six Epstein survivors CNN spoke with said they met Groff in person and were dismayed to learn of Groff’s denial about ever meeting the girls and young women.
Lacerda, who says she first met Epstein in 2002 when she was just shy of turning 14, said she saw Groff regularly during her years of abuse. “She’s lying,” she said, adding: “Just me and my friends, she’s met at least three or four of us.”
Sharlene Rochard, who says she was a young model working in New York City when she first met Epstein, said she met Groff “multiple times in different locations.”
Lara Blume McGee, who says she met Epstein as an aspiring model and was abused from 2001 to 2003, said she remembers meeting Groff at least twice at Epstein’s townhouse, while Lisa Phillips, who says she was in her early 20s when she first met Epstein, told CNN: “Of course I’ve met her in person.”
One woman who spoke to CNN anonymously says she was around 14 when she first met Epstein. She said she met Groff numerous times at Epstein’s New York City townhouse and that she could still clearly picture where their interactions primarily took place.
“When you walked in his house, right to the left of the foyer when you come in, he had his little seating area office that she was always in,” she said. “She would greet you sometimes while you would sit there and wait — like basically the chairs are facing her — so I would always start conversation.”
A second Epstein victim who spoke anonymously says she first met Epstein in 2001 when she was 20 years old. She similarly said she met Groff multiple times, including at Epstein’s office in New York City.
Groff repeatedly told lawmakers that she never asked for or knew the ages of the girls and young women who came to see Epstein, including the fact that some of them were minors. She also said she was never aware that some were coming from local high schools.
Multiple Epstein survivors vehemently pushed back on Groff’s claim that she never knew any of the girls’ ages.
Lacerda said Groff regularly asked her detailed questions about new girls that Lacerda planned to bring to Epstein, and that Groff was sensitive to Epstein’s preference for younger girls – so much so that she started asking Lacerda to tell her friends to bring their school IDs to their sessions with Epstein.
“She would ask, ‘What does the girl look like? Where is she from? How old is she?’ over the phone,” Lacerda said.
Rochard said it was not possible that Groff didn’t know her age, because she had Rochard’s passport information to plan travel. “Of course she knew how old we were because she had to look at our IDs to book our flight,” Rochard said.
The second woman who spoke with CNN anonymously echoed Rochard, saying Groff had helped her apply for her first passport so that she could travel abroad. She visited Epstein’s office in New York City to give Groff the necessary information for the application, she said: “I sat with her and she took all my information in person. She obviously knew my age.”
However, when Groff was specifically asked by a lawmaker if she ever handled or viewed any of the girls’ passports, she responded: “No.” She later said she “may have seen a passport – a picture of a passport, but I never had anything to do with their passports.”
The first anonymous woman said she was also “100 percent” certain Groff knew that she was a minor. “I went to a private Catholic school and she would always ask me to leave school early,” she said. Epstein liked to see her in her school uniform, and that she said there were many times when Groff saw her wearing her uniform.
Groff repeatedly told lawmakers that she never gave money to anyone on Epstein’s behalf. She said she was only involved in sometimes arranging for money to be picked up to be delivered.
Multiple Epstein survivors said getting paid by Groff was a feature of their time with Epstein. Lacerda said it was often Groff who gave her cash, particularly when Epstein was out of town.
“She would put it in a long white envelope and the cash would always be in hundreds. Never in twenties, never in fives, never in tens — like it just came out the bank,” she said. Lacerda said that the payments took place at Epstein’s New York City office on the stairs, and that Groff “would hand the envelope over and we would leave. And we would know, like, not to stay very long there because we knew that we were young and we did not belong there.”
The first anonymous woman also said she received money in envelopes from Groff, and that it happened frequently. “We would go pick up money from Lesley every other day. Not even for massage — just because. We had no money unless we brought a girl,” she said.
Phillips told CNN it was “impossible” for Groff to claim that she never gave the girls money, explaining that she went to Epstein’s office to pick up checks for school tuition from Groff.
Groff told lawmakers that from 2001 to about 2013, she “never stepped foot” in Epstein’s New York City townhouse.
The first anonymous woman, who said she was abused by Epstein starting in the early 2000s, said she saw Groff at Epstein’s townhouse many times. “Is she kidding? Unless I’m hallucinating and she has a twin,” she said.
Blume McGee, who said she was abused by Epstein in the early 2000s, said she saw Groff in person at least twice and that it was only at Epstein’s townhouse.
Groff told lawmakers that she never provided Broadway tickets to any of the masseuses.
Lacerda and the first anonymous woman both said they went to Epstein’s New York City office on numerous occasions to pick up Broadway tickets from Groff. “She would meet us in the staircase and she always would hand us over a white envelope,” Lacerda said.
She said she once walked out of “Phantom of the Opera” because she didn’t enjoy it.
Responses